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Dave Coull Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2809
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:52 pm Post subject: TARTAN AND HOME TRUTHS |
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TARTAN AND HOME TRUTHS : A new centre for the study of the Scottish diaspora is already caught up in controversy
Oh, the swing of the kilt and the skirl of the bagpipes! The tens of thousands who gather annually to try their strength at tossing Scottish cabers around ... in Leipzig.
A mania for "the heedrum-hodrum Celtic twilight", which is afflicting parts of northern Europe, is one of the topics to be researched at a new centre for the study of the Scottish diaspora at Edinburgh University.
But since its launch at the end of last month, the new centre, funded by a £1m donation from a Scottish financier, has been caught up in controversy.
Its founder, perhaps Scotland's foremost historian, Professor Tom Devine, announced in the opening lecture that he intended to challenge the "Burns supper" school of Scottish history. As a result, he has been subject to attacks by nationalists accusing him of "unionist revisionism".
Legacy of slavery
Now, a professor emeritus of Heriot-Watt University, Geoff Palmer, has weighed in. Palmer, whose mother was a West Indian woman with the Scots name Lamond, wants the new centre to challenge what he sees as Scotland's refusal to engage with the legacy of slavery.
"I have a Jamaican telephone directory, and I would say that about 60% of the names in it are Scottish," he says. West Indians with Scottish names acquired them from slave owners and slave drivers, a huge proportion of whom were Scots. Some fathered children with slaves while others simply imposed their names on them.
"Most Scots are completely ignorant of this," says Palmer. He points to the nationalist Scottish government's Homecoming Scotland next year - a festival to welcome back the Scottish diaspora with a series of events like a great clan pageant. There is no mention of the West Indies anywhere in the publicity material: "This event is being marketed in Canada, New Zealand, Australia. Why are they not inviting people from Jamaica with Scottish names?"
Palmer says he recently received an invitation from a black union official in Kent whose surname is "Cameron" to talk about Scotland and slavery. "I think a lot of West Indians want to know about their Scottish heritage. Perhaps they can even take some pride in it. For a while there was a movement towards dropping these names, but I think that would be to lose something real, a real record of our history in favour of a made-up African name. Personally, I would rather have an honest truth than some false pride."
Palmer's willingness to face up to the past is not shared by all Scots. Devine says: "I gave a lecture at last year's Edinburgh book festival called Did Slavery Make Scotland Great?. Several people I knew were in the audience and a lot of them seemed really uncomfortable with it."
The ignorance is not confined to slavery. Devine points out that half of fourth-year history students in Scottish schools appear to believe that Scotland was conquered by England. "That has implications politically; it has implications for their future behaviour."
Devine, who has no political affiliation and has in the past been accused of nationalism, sees a link between Scotland's "collective amnesia" of its real history and the rise of political nationalism. His condemnation of Scotland's "victim" history, which presents Scots as victims of the English, has earned him the wrath of some in the Scottish National party.
Scottish National party MSP Christine Grahame issued a press release, saying: "Professor Tom Devine and other commentators have their perspective on Scottish history, which of course they are entitled to, but I fundamentally disagree that there is a 'victim mentality' to popular perceptions of history in Scotland.
"Professor Devine may wish otherwise, as do most British unionists, but the fact remains that Scotland has been subjected to almost continuous external interference throughout most of its existence by England, with a political goal to subjugate and subsume Scotland.
"As Labour's own justice secretary, Jack Straw, conceded, England has used its propensity to violence to subjugate Scotland, Wales and Ireland.
"All those with an interest in the history of our nation, which has in the past been deliberately suppressed for political reasons by British unionists, should welcome a debate on how that history is presented. I would encourage ordinary Scots to play their role in that national debate.
"We could start with the recent evidence of the 1970s that exposed the lies over whether oil could sustain an independent Scotland. That is indeed one of the 'darker aspects of Scottish history' rarely mentioned or discussed."
Devine's controversial book, Scotland's Empire, talks about the "darker aspects" of the Scots and Ulster Scots history as being some of the most brutal slave-owning practices in history, the worst ever massacre of Tasmanian aborigines, the worst ever massacre of native Americans, encouraging the alcohol addiction of the Inuit in Canada, and involvement in the opium trade in China.
He quotes Samuel Taylor Coleridge's 1812 observation: "Of the overseers of the slave plantations in the West Indies three out of four are Scotsmen and the fourth is generally observed to have very suspicious cheekbones."
Devine puts some of this down to a rampant "Scottophobia", which he claims abounded in the early 19th century. "But at the same time as there was this rabid hatred of most Scots, there was subtle intellectual colonisation going on."
Diaspora puzzle
For Devine, the Scottish diaspora is worthy of its own centre because of an intellectual puzzle at its heart: why the Scots emigrated in such numbers when they came from a comparatively wealthy and advanced nation and why they became so upwardly mobile, achieving a disproportionate degree of military and political influence in countries they arrived in.
He also wants the centre to generate studies of other diasporas in history whether or not they have anything to do with Scotland.
The centre, the first of its kind in a history department, won a £1m bequest from international financier Alan McFarlane, and Devine believes other wealthy philanthropists in Scotland and outside are interested. "The only trouble is that your Donald Trumps and your Forbes tend to be quite right wing," he muses.
Foreign students will also be attracted, he hopes, although he says they will be selected on academic merit, and the higher fees they bring are not an inducement.
David Hesse, an "urban intellectual from Zurich", who gave up a journalism career to study in Edinburgh, says: "You could call my field the imagined diaspora. I investigate highland games in Germany and Scottish clubs in eastern Europe. I look at people dressing up as Scots. Those people have no "real" Scottish ancestry but feel aesthetic connections. I think international fascinations with Scotland and Scottish-looking things are a phenomenon."
Hesse sees imaginary Scottishness as an identity that is becoming increasingly popular in northern Europe. "It is a folk identity, but it is quite macho. It involves military music and martial games. It is also a generally white phenomenon."
Education Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/educati...udy-scottish-diaspora-controversy
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Corby Boy Standing in a Council Ward
Joined: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 487
Location: South of Hadrian's Wall
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Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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The whole diaspora and tartan/kilts thing is a very interesting area.
As a member of said diaspora I am one of millions who identify to some degree with such symbols.
My own view is that highland games, tartan and kilts are legitimate and not to be scorned symbols of modern Scottish identity albeit the origins are ancient.
Where it goes a bit off the scale is when you have people who have never set foot in the land, whose ancestor left Scotland in the1700's and who claim strongly to be Scots and wear the kilt etc.. The chances are these people have many different nationalities in their make up.
Also, I object to the shortbread tin approach to the only expression of Scottish identity to the rest of the world. It is only a very small part of the whole.
Modern music culture, art, literature and invention and the contribution of Scottish leading cultural figures should also be a part of this.
A lot of people diss Sir Sean for being a stay away nationalist, but ypu cannot hide from the fact he has promoted the country tirelessly all his life and gives very empassioned and intellectual responses whenever he is engaged about his homeland.
I welcome the proper debate and the role of the diaspora, the experiences and the thorny issue of slavery must be tackled head on and welcomed. I am proud of the fact that many Afro-caribbeans have Scots names and if a few of them are proud of it and have a real link, then may be they should be called in to the national side if they are any good at football! We need the breadth of talent badly.
Every Scot is entitled to their opinion irrespective of where they live.
Irish Pubs are the main symbol of Irish Culture outside of Ireland, but an Irish pub does not cover the complexity of Ireland and its people.
The fact of the matter highland games are here to stay, as is the kilt.
I for one am mighty proud whenever I wear it, but then I can trace my ancestory to the Highlands - if I had lowland ancestory then maybe trews would do! |
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Scotland86 Gaining a Reputation
Joined: 12 Dec 2008 Posts: 249
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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:46 am Post subject: |
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I for one am mighty proud whenever I wear it, but then I can trace my ancestory to the Highlands - if I had lowland ancestory then maybe trews would do!
Why wouldnt you still wear a kilt? Lowland clans and septs have there own tartans also and wore kilts. |
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azzuri 'Our Scotland' Fossil

Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 4291
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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:29 am Post subject: |
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A very interesting article. It's a good point made about the West Indies and Homecoming Scotland 2009, but I'm sure they weren't 'ignored', just that no one actively thought about it. I'm guilty of that myself, I certainly didn't think of Jamaicans when I thought of the diaspora coming 'home' this year. That doesn't necessarily mean I'm ignoring Jamaicans or that I'm racist, simply that it didn't cross my mind until I read this article.
Maybe the Scottish government can't afford or simply won't market to a largely poor, smallish country who's inhabitants are unlikely to make the trip? _________________ "Gordon Brown mistook a glut of cheap money and a global bull market for his own administrative genius. In so doing, he wrecked the economy. Had the Prime Minister been running a company, instead of a country, he would be facing an inquiry into allegations of criminal negligence." - Jeff Randal
"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury." - Alexander Tytler
"There are four ways to spend money. A) You can spend your money on yourself, in which case you will strive for a mix of the best bargain and the best quality. B) You can spend your money on someone else, in which case you are still interested in a bargain, but the quality of the product or service becomes secondary. C) You can spend other people's money on yourself, in which case price is no object but quality becomes a great concern. D) Finally, you can spend other people's money on other people, in which case neither price nor quality is of great concern."
Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mash' - http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/ |
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mairead 'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 4295
Location: Argyll, Alba
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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:05 am Post subject: |
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Dave Coull,
I must confess as to being fairly ignorant in regard to Scotland's slave trade. Time to do some reading I think  _________________ I fear not hell, nor English strife,
For Scotland, I will give my life |
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Corby Boy Standing in a Council Ward
Joined: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 487
Location: South of Hadrian's Wall
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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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Scotland86
If you look back at the origins of kilt wearing it tends to be more associated with Highland clans rather than the Lowlands.
It has become Scotland wide since c19th when Walter Scott popularised kilt wearing after the royal visits during and after the 1820's. This was the birth of the modern kilt phenomenum.
Prior to this most things highland including kilts were generally scorned by lowlanders.
Although, it is generally agreed that tartan and simple plaids have endured in the lowlands also for as long as in the highlands. But kilt wearing? Less common in the lowlands historically.
But now of course its different, and I would not criticise a lowlander for wearing a kilt, as it now represents Scotland as a whole and is PART of Scottish culture and to be applauded! |
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RFM Standing in a Council Ward
Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 506
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Actually there is a darker sort of truth to the slave-Scots name issue.
Slaves were regarded as something on the order of livestock and had no given names. When they were manumitted, or just released from slavery, they often took or were given their owner's names, hence the large numbers of African-Americans were Scottish surnames.
However as the Thomas Jefferson family controversy has amply demonstrated, female slaves were often the willing and unwilling targets of the slave owner's sexual outlet. The result has been a large number of persons of African ancestry and descent who have a number of distinct Caucasian qualities, such a very light skin, straight hair, fair hair, blue eyes, north European noses, etc, with Scottish names.
So the long and short of it all may be that there might well be some people who show up at the home-coming this year wearing kilts who are entitled, if that is the word, to wear them. |
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Holebender Ready For Afterlife!

Joined: 04 Apr 2007 Posts: 2752
Location: Here or There
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Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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There are many colours in a kilt. _________________ "My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it." - agentmancuso |
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Dave Coull Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2809
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Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| RFM wrote: | Actually there is a darker sort of truth to the slave-Scots name issue. Slaves were regarded as something on the order of livestock and had no given names. When they were manumitted, or just released from slavery, they often took or were given their owner's names, hence the large numbers of African-Americans were Scottish surnames.
However as the Thomas Jefferson family controversy has amply demonstrated, female slaves were often the willing and unwilling targets of the slave owner's sexual outlet. |
I wouldn't bet on Louis Armstrong not being a genuine Armstrong. And the same goes for an awful lot of other descendants of slaves with Scottish names. |
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azzuri 'Our Scotland' Fossil

Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 4291
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Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Holebender wrote: | | There are many colours in a kilt. |
Can't believe I've never heard this saying before, it's brilliant, is this commonly used?!  _________________ "Gordon Brown mistook a glut of cheap money and a global bull market for his own administrative genius. In so doing, he wrecked the economy. Had the Prime Minister been running a company, instead of a country, he would be facing an inquiry into allegations of criminal negligence." - Jeff Randal
"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury." - Alexander Tytler
"There are four ways to spend money. A) You can spend your money on yourself, in which case you will strive for a mix of the best bargain and the best quality. B) You can spend your money on someone else, in which case you are still interested in a bargain, but the quality of the product or service becomes secondary. C) You can spend other people's money on yourself, in which case price is no object but quality becomes a great concern. D) Finally, you can spend other people's money on other people, in which case neither price nor quality is of great concern."
Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mash' - http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/ |
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Holebender Ready For Afterlife!

Joined: 04 Apr 2007 Posts: 2752
Location: Here or There
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Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:51 am Post subject: |
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I just made it up. _________________ "My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it." - agentmancuso |
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Cruachan Helping with the Count

Joined: 19 May 2008 Posts: 296
Location: The English Midlands
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Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Holebender wrote: | | I just made it up. |
It wouldn't be a bad strapline for a Scottish Government (or Highland Council?) Equality & Diversity or Racism awareness campaign
Get it copyrighted and send off your project proposal to Alex Salmond! _________________ IT'S TIME.
http://loosechange-cruachan.blogspot.com/ |
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azzuri 'Our Scotland' Fossil

Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 4291
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Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Cruachan wrote: | | Holebender wrote: | | I just made it up. |
It wouldn't be a bad strapline for a Scottish Government (or Highland Council?) Equality & Diversity or Racism awareness campaign
Get it copyrighted and send off your project proposal to Alex Salmond! |
Actually holebender, it IS pretty cool, that could catch on.... _________________ "Gordon Brown mistook a glut of cheap money and a global bull market for his own administrative genius. In so doing, he wrecked the economy. Had the Prime Minister been running a company, instead of a country, he would be facing an inquiry into allegations of criminal negligence." - Jeff Randal
"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury." - Alexander Tytler
"There are four ways to spend money. A) You can spend your money on yourself, in which case you will strive for a mix of the best bargain and the best quality. B) You can spend your money on someone else, in which case you are still interested in a bargain, but the quality of the product or service becomes secondary. C) You can spend other people's money on yourself, in which case price is no object but quality becomes a great concern. D) Finally, you can spend other people's money on other people, in which case neither price nor quality is of great concern."
Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mash' - http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/ |
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Holebender Ready For Afterlife!

Joined: 04 Apr 2007 Posts: 2752
Location: Here or There
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Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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Right, you all saw it here first. January the Ninth 2009, 18:53 GMT. I hereby assert my copyright. 
_________________ "My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it." - agentmancuso |
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