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SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 5515
Location: Dłn Eideann
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 Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:40 pm Post subject: Rock for Independence |
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Calling all patriotic rock n roll fans......!!! On Saturday 11th February, archAngel and Soul Circus will line-up for a one-off night of live rock music to raise funds for the cause of Scottish Independence. The bands will play some of their own numbers followed by a few well-known tunes with a Scottish flavour. The gig will be held at the Whitefield Community Hall in Ibrox and will be open to under-18s. Entry will be strictly by ticket only, available now for £6, including food. Doors at 1930hrs. Please send the band an e-mail if you would like to book tickets or get more information on this unique event.
http://www.angelfire.com/pro/archangel/
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Aventinian
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 4278
Location: Broadcasting From An Anonymous Location Within the United Kingdom.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:30 am Post subject: |
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Just out of interest, where does the cash from this actually go? The SNP?
_________________
The resident pantomime villain.
'Socialists cry "Power to the people", and raise the clenched fist as they say it. We all know what they really meanpower over people, power to the State.' |
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azzuri
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 3777
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:48 am Post subject: |
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I wouldn't have thought so.........the Independence Convention maybe?
Often people who organise these types of events don't vote SNP anyway, and are just trying to create broad support for Independence or a pro-Independence feeling.
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"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub
Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mash' - http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/ |
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Aventinian
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 4278
Location: Broadcasting From An Anonymous Location Within the United Kingdom.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:55 am Post subject: |
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It's a bit underhand to say proceeds are going towards support for independence... I could do that and use the proceeds to buy a new PC in order to advance the ideals of Unionism by arguing with you lot.
From a second look at one of the band websites, it would appear that they support the SNP.
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The resident pantomime villain.
'Socialists cry "Power to the people", and raise the clenched fist as they say it. We all know what they really meanpower over people, power to the State.' |
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azzuri
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 3777
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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that doesn't necessarily mean that is where the money is headed though.
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"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub
Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mash' - http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/ |
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SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 5515
Location: Dłn Eideann
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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I think you'd need to contact them. As you have to do so to buy tickets anyway. The only link to the SNP I can see is just the 'why independence' page, so I'm not sure if that implies anything regarding the recipient of the proceeds.
| Quote: | | I could do that and use the proceeds to buy a new PC in order to advance the ideals of Unionism by arguing with you lot. |
I would suggest that your arguing here has the opposite effect  |
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SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 5515
Location: Dłn Eideann
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Going to the local SNP branch apparently. |
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thetimeisnow
No Longer a Wean
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Often people who organise these types of events don't vote SNP anyway, and are just trying to create broad support for Independence or a pro-Independence feeling. |
Don't think that is true. If you really want independence you vote SNP. |
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azzuri
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 3777
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| thetimeisnow wrote: | | Quote: | | Often people who organise these types of events don't vote SNP anyway, and are just trying to create broad support for Independence or a pro-Independence feeling. |
Don't think that is true. If you really want independence you vote SNP. |
Well there's about 25% of Scots out there who broadly support Independence but don't vote SNP - they obviously don't agree with you.
The SNP isn't appealing to these voters, and if they really want to attract these people to vote for them then they should do away with their 'democratic socialist' mandate and just have one aim: Independence. Then these poeple would have no reason not to vote SNP.
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Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mash' - http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/ |
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Rinty
Ready For Afterlife!
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 2564
Location: SW Scotland
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:07 pm Post subject: n |
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| Quote: | | The SNP isn't appealing to these voters, and if they really want to attract these people to vote for them then they should do away with their 'democratic socialist' mandate and just have one aim: Independence. Then these poeple would have no reason not to vote SNP. |
I dont agree azzuri. This would not motivate me to vote SNP. I think what we are seeing is the beginning of the end of the SNP and the start of the real push for independence.
When all parties were more or less unionist the SNP was a carch all party for independence. Now the IC is shaping up to take that role. I see the SNP re-aligning into two parties with some members joining the SSP and SGP and some members leaving the unuinists parties to join the new parties.
I believe that a situation with the SSP and SGP, a Scottish Social Democrat party and a scottish pro-business or conservative party would be ideal. These four parties could unite in the IC and unite in parliament where they can agree and form a formidable force.
I think a Scottish Social Democrat Party would retain most of the SNP vote and members while attracting voters from Labour and Lib Dems to more than compensate what they would lose to the SGP and SSP. I also think that many SNP members coupled with some forward thinking tories could create another party which could match the SSP and SGP in terms of votes. |
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Lothian Sky
I Love 'Our Scotland'
Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 350
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:59 am Post subject: |
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The SNP are already Social Democrats (old labour) in outlook. I fail to see how setting up a Scottish Social Democrat Party will entice any more hardened Labour voters to consider independence. To win elections, you need money, organisation, strategy, power.You need a concentrated party machine.
This wont be an option if we have 3 dozen tiny independence parties, campaigning for every single petty nuance of Scottish independence. Frankly, I dont see the point. We can sort our differences out later. I'll need to join the "Scottish Social Democratic not all that religious Tartan Army East Fife supporter's Non Smoking but Likes a Bevvy Hillwalking Social Sciences Student Party".
If you think the SNP are finished Rinty, then you are guilty of wishful thinking. I think independence will happen, but it will require some monumental event in society, like Tory government trying to dissolve the parliament, for example.
When the chance comes, we need to be in a position to get stuck in to Labour. Labour are the enemy. Labour Labour Labour. Not the SNP. All I hear from you is how the SNP are finished, and how we all need to vote SSP, or some other uninvented wee clique! The SNP were seen as a radical party in Scotland until they became the official opposition. Now they are a party of potential government, and presumably this makes them appear less radical, so certain people lose interest and throw the toys oot the pram. But if the SSP were in the same position, THEY would be an establishment party. And you guys would all be lurching off towards the SNP, and blowing up post boxes again.  |
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Rinty
Ready For Afterlife!
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 2564
Location: SW Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:25 am Post subject: y |
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| Quote: | | The SNP are already Social Democrats (old labour) in outlook. |
Thats simply not true. There may be a mood for those sort of policies within many party members but the SNP are very much a pro-business party who belive that growth in the economy is the priority and that incentives for millionaires is what stimulates the economy. They dont call for public ownership of resources like old labour and are supporters of the business price-fixing club the EU.
Thats is what I am saying, the SNP SHOULD be a social democract party but their compulsion to grow their vote and be a "catch all" party leads to contradictory policies. I believe that if the SNP hadnt moved rightwards (economically) in Labours wake, they would have maintained their vote. I'm not talking about the end of the SNP as such just a re-alignment for a final push towards independence.
How do you win over the people who are not against independence but still vote for unionist parties? The SNP tring to appeal to all will not do that, I suggest that a large Scottish Social Democract Party (the current SNP minus the pro-business tartan tories), a credible pro-independence alternative to New Labour/Tories (free market privatisation pro-business party), the SSP and the SGP would provide us with the range of parties to take that next step.
I never voted for the SNP, I believed that Scotland would be better off independent but, as a socialist, I couldnt agree enough with the SNP to vote for them. I am one of thousands of people who now support a pro-independence party since the arrival of the SSP.
I believe that an SNP, re-vamped without the Jim Mathers types, who concentrate on their political programme rather than just independence would win over some of the estimated 25% of Labour voters who support independence. I also believe that Jim Mathers, some tories and the Scottish Enterprise party could do the same for the tories who support independence. The Independence convention could take over the SNPs role as the "catch all" organisation for the movement.
| Quote: | | If you think the SNP are finished Rinty, then you are guilty of wishful thinking. |
If you read my posts you couldnt arrive at that conclusion. My thoughts on this require the SNP to become a strong party to win independence with the support of three strong smaller parties. I'm trying to have a debate here about the way forward, not kill off the SNP. So far you haven't actually bothered to address the evidence I base my ideas on.
Do you agree that as smaller pro-independence parties have arrived on the scene that the independence vote has gone up while the SNP vote has gone down? Do you accept that the SGP and SSP have taken votes for independence that previously would have gone to pro-union parties. How do you analyse these developments?
| Quote: | | All I hear from you is how the SNP are finished, and how we all need to vote SSP, or some other uninvented wee clique! |
Scroll back, you didnt hear that from me! If that is your view of what I am saying, to me that means that you are so party orientated your defensiveness makes you see that.
| Quote: | | so certain people lose interest and throw the toys oot the pram |
Who are you talking about here?
| Quote: | | But if the SSP were in the same position, THEY would be an establishment party. And you guys would all be lurching off towards the SNP, and blowing up post boxes again. |
Cant see the SSP EVER being the main opposition party. I dont understand the bit about lurching and post boxes, can you explain? |
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