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Reluctant Hero
Jim Baxter is God...........really!!!!
Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 3180
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 Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 10:24 pm Post subject: Flower of Scotland - Embarrassing |
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According to Findlay Calder, a prominent Scottish rugby player back in the day, the national anthem adopted by the Scottish rugby and football teams has become an embarrassing anti-English rant.
There is no doubt there will be one or two people who maintain an anti-English viewpoint. However, for the majority I think the singing of Flower of Scotland and the booing of the English national anthem is just part and parcel of a rivalry that has been around for centuries.
I seem to recall our national anthem got drowned out at Wembley in 1999 as well. Maybe it was because the first game was at Hampden 
http://www.sundayherald.com/news/...r_of_scotland_is_embarrassing.php
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skip
Helping with the Count
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 257
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| Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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when i read about this I immediately thought of the 1990 grand slam.
and a quick youtube search found finlay calder himself is singing it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzTcKf4zL1w
on the big occassion when its done right its a stirring song. simples.
scots spend too much time bashing themselves about supposedly bashing the english.
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Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
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| Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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Isn't crushing rebellious Scots an anti Scottish rant.
Viva la républica !
Anyway, I don't think our Saxon neighbours give a monkey's testicle what a bunch of Scottish rugby fans sing and I seriously doubt they even listen. So, Finlay Calder may well be referring to his fellow team mates and that is then their personal decision to add venom or pride.
Personally, I think pride is better in the long run.
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Luke P
Gaining a Reputation
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 218
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:48 am Post subject: Re: Flower of Scotland - Embarrassing |
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| Reluctant Hero wrote: | According to Findlay Calder, a prominent Scottish rugby player back in the day, the national anthem adopted by the Scottish rugby and football teams has become an embarrassing anti-English rant.
There is no doubt there will be one or two people who maintain an anti-English viewpoint. However, for the majority I think the singing of Flower of Scotland and the booing of the English national anthem is just part and parcel of a rivalry that has been around for centuries.
I seem to recall our national anthem got drowned out at Wembley in 1999 as well. Maybe it was because the first game was at Hampden
http://www.sundayherald.com/news/...r_of_scotland_is_embarrassing.php |
Please drop the misconception that God Save the Queen is the English anthem. It is not. It is the British anthem and applies to Scotland too. You will notice Northern Ireland use it too and Scotland did until a few years back and the booing got too loud. Count yourselves (and Wales) very privileged that you're allowed your own Flower of Scotland - the English aren't - yet (I favour I vow to thee... personally).
So no, the booing has not been a feature of the rivalry for centuries. Flower of Scotland is only about 40 years old anyway.
Why worry about the legendary "rebellious Scots to crush" line? I assure you no English person knows the words to the national anthem - let alone protestant propaganda from the 18th century. P-leeez. |
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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:09 am Post subject: Re: Flower of Scotland - Embarrassing |
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| Luke P wrote: | | (I favour I vow to thee... personally). |
That's a dirge. I believe at some events some English fans have taken to singing William Blake's "Jerusalem". Which is, admittedly, a magnificent song. Far better than "Flower of Scotland", as a matter of fact. | Luke P wrote: | | Count yourselves (and Wales) very privileged |
I know this is a big thing to ask, considering your very first post was a lie, but be honest, Luke P, you're trying to stoke up Scottish Nationalist feeling, by telling us how privileged we are, aren't you? |
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Luke P
Gaining a Reputation
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 218
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:25 am Post subject: Re: Flower of Scotland - Embarrassing |
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| Dave Coull wrote: | | Luke P wrote: | | (I favour I vow to thee... personally). |
That's a dirge. I believe at some events some English fans have taken to singing William Blake's "Jerusalem". Which is, admittedly, a magnificent song. Far better than "Flower of Scotland", as a matter of fact. | Luke P wrote: | | Count yourselves (and Wales) very privileged |
I know this is a big thing to ask, considering your very first post was a lie, but be honest, Luke P, you're trying to stoke up Scottish Nationalist feeling, by telling us how privileged we are, aren't you? |
No. It is worth recognising that Scotland gets preferential treatment in some areas - parliament, anthems, tuition fees... English people are starting to feel left out in the rain.
Jerusalem is used by the cricket team. Land of hope and glory at the Commonwealth games. This is more likely to make it as the official anthem. |
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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:01 am Post subject: Re: Flower of Scotland - Embarrassing |
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| Luke P wrote: | | Count yourselves (and Wales) very privileged |
| I wrote: | | I know this is a big thing to ask, considering your very first post was a lie, but be honest, Luke P, you're trying to stoke up Scottish Nationalist feeling, by telling us how privileged we are, aren't you? |
| Luke P wrote: | | It is worth recognising that Scotland gets preferential treatment in some areas - parliament, anthems, tuition fees... English people are starting to feel left out in the rain. |
Good. The more people in England feel like that, the weaker the United Kingdom becomes, and the closer we get to independence. |
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Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:35 pm Post subject: Re: Flower of Scotland - Embarrassing |
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| Luke P wrote: | | No. It is worth recognising that Scotland gets preferential treatment in some areas - parliament, anthems, tuition fees... English people are starting to feel left out in the rain. |
Ah well, at least they don't feel as if they've been pished on for centuries by their next door neighbours.
I agree with Dave, Jerusalem is a magnificent song; I wonder though at its use for encouraging people to go off and die in pointless warfare.
However, it's truly jolly decent of you to point out how well the Scots have done in this whole union thingy. Thanks for that, some of us seem to forget, we are an ungrateful lot.
As ever, critique with a smile rather than a sneer.
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Luke P
Gaining a Reputation
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 218
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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What can I say? That's back to persecution complex territory. You know what, the Romans pished on the Britons, then the Angles pished on the Britons, the Scots pished on the Picts, the Norse pished on the Scots, the Danes pished on the Saxons, the Scots pished on the Angles, the Saxons pished on the Danes and the Normans pished on everyone. The roundheads pished on the royalists, the protestants on the catholics and the catholics on the protestants and the protestants on the catholics again. That's history. If you just want independence that's fine, but there are some things Scotland doesn't need to complain about.
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Luke P
Gaining a Reputation
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 218
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: Flower of Scotland - Embarrassing |
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| Dave Coull wrote: | | The more people in England feel like that, the weaker the United Kingdom becomes, and the closer we get to independence. |
You are quite correct and it is going to work eventually. English people are currently very unsure whether they want their own parliament, regional parliaments, English independence or what. Largely very strongly "British" before, "English' is coming back, as is English symbolism. If McLabour have been operating under instruction from Brussels-central to undermine the union by provocation the tactic has worked admirably, and is working elsewhere in Europe too. As for the EU, and independence within it, I think that deserves a thread of its own... |
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Holebender
Ready For Afterlife!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 2752
Location: Here or There
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Luke P wrote: | | What can I say? That's back to persecution complex territory. You know what, the Romans pished on the Britons, then the Angles pished on the Britons, the Scots pished on the Picts, the Norse pished on the Scots, the Danes pished on the Saxons, the Scots pished on the Angles, the Saxons pished on the Danes and the Normans pished on everyone. The roundheads pished on the royalists, the protestants on the catholics and the catholics on the protestants and the protestants on the catholics again. That's history. If you just want independence that's fine, but there are some things Scotland doesn't need to complain about. |
Don't tell me... you don't do irony, do you?
You imply others have a persecution complex and then you go on to post a long list of supposed persecutions. Priceless! So's your stuff about those poor downtrodden English being left out in the rain; no persecution complex there, eh? McLabour... great stuff... all those Labour Jocks persecuting dear old Blighty... you couldn't make it up!
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Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:09 am Post subject: |
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Actually, 'God Save the Queen' is embarrassingly dull.
How anybody can make it through this almighty dirge without falling into a deep depression is in itself a remarkable feat of self will.
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Fidget
Standing in a Council Ward
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 556
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| How many verses to it are there? |
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Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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One is too many.
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Luke P
Gaining a Reputation
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 218
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Holebender wrote: |
You imply others have a persecution complex and then you go on to post a long list of supposed persecutions. Priceless! So's your stuff about those poor downtrodden English being left out in the rain; no persecution complex there, eh? McLabour... great stuff... all those Labour Jocks persecuting dear old Blighty... you couldn't make it up! |
Blighty = slang term for Britain, not England. Britain still does include Scotland and probably will for a while longer until sea level rises chop Scotland in half.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blighty
I don't mind having Scots running Britain at all. I've said it before - it just irritates me when Scots are in the driving seat and still whinge about being run by English. |
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Luke P
Gaining a Reputation
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 218
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Bravehand wrote: | Actually, 'God Save the Queen' is embarrassingly dull.
How anybody can make it through this almighty dirge without falling into a deep depression is in itself a remarkable feat of self will. |
Too true. |
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Alasdair
Our Scotland = 2nd Job!
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 1021
Location: Clydesdale
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| Luke P wrote: | | I don't mind having Scots running Britain at all. I've said it before - it just irritates me when Scots are in the driving seat and still whinge about being run by English. |
What utter nonsense, you are actually aware of the make-up of parliament aren't you. Even is ever Scottish MP supported a particular move it would take a fraction of the English MP's to block it, unless - dum-dum-dummm - it was actually supported by a majority of English MP's.
Don't give us this pish about Britain being run by scots.
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Morph
Our Scotland = 2nd Job!
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 916
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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I think the moaning Scots have a right to moan, last time i checked the oil money used in England as well as Scotland came from Scottish waters. If independant you wouldnt get a touch.
Or the Scots who paid poll tax when the English didn't.
Don't get angry about Scots running the country, get even give us our own parliament, kick us out we would hate that!
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Luke P
Gaining a Reputation
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 218
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Alasdair wrote: | | Luke P wrote: | | I don't mind having Scots running Britain at all. I've said it before - it just irritates me when Scots are in the driving seat and still whinge about being run by English. |
What utter nonsense, you are actually aware of the make-up of parliament aren't you. Even is ever Scottish MP supported a particular move it would take a fraction of the English MP's to block it, unless - dum-dum-dummm - it was actually supported by a majority of English MP's.
Don't give us this pish about Britain being run by scots. |
It's not pish. The PM, chancellor and Home Sec are Scots - the three most important posts in the land. The speaker was a Scot also, till a wee while ago. Holyrood business is Holyrood business and English MPs have no say in Scotland. In national business yes they do, but you are just pointing out the demographic imbalance between England and Scotland. That can't be rectified until Scotland welcomes 20m immigrants or half of England dies of swine flu. In any case, when did MPs vote along English and Scottish lines EVER???? |
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Luke P
Gaining a Reputation
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 218
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Morph wrote: | I think the moaning Scots have a right to moan, last time i checked the oil money used in England as well as Scotland came from Scottish waters. If independant you wouldnt get a touch.
Or the Scots who paid poll tax when the English didn't.
Don't get angry about Scots running the country, get even give us our own parliament, kick us out we would hate that! |
Please don't dream either you or I see a penny of said 'oil money'. We're all up to our ears in debt.
I think the Scots paid the poll tax for one year that England didn't. You make it sound like the potato famine.
Like I have repeated twice now, I am NOT angry about Scots running Westminster. They have every right and are quite as capable of screwing us over as any Englishman. Try reading more carefully.
I'm not an English nationalist, nor is it up to me to kick anybody out anyway. I just have an opinion.
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