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Cymro
Getting on a bit!
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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 Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Michael Owen has lived all his life on Deeside. I think he bought the whole street for his family. He was born in Chester cos it's the nearest hospital but I don't think that makes him English - eligible yes, but not English. He's a Welsh lad through and through. He has a Scottish grandmother and could have played for Scotland though. |
Erm, no. Michael Owen is and always has been and regarded himself as English. He was born in the Countess of Cheshire, while you are right to say it's the nearest hospital there are many many people in that area that are born in either the Maelor Hospital in Wrecsam or in Glan Clwyd in Bodelwyddan, depending on where exactly in Flinshire they live. Michael Owen was born to English parents who happen to live in Hawarden. While Corby is right to say that many in the area regard themselves as English, Michael is different to a lot of them in that he IS English. I am quite fortunate here because my dad taught at Hawarden High and I can assure you Michael Owen despite his Welsh surname always has seen himself as an Englishman living in Wales. He could have played for Scotland but he was not even eligable to play for Wales, only for the School Boys - in the same way that Ryan Giggs was able to play for the England School Boys but not for the England senior sides.
| Quote: | I can't believe your last stament "glory hunting ambitions... undermining football in this country".
I am ROFL>>>
The last part "this country" says a lot too. What country are you talking about? The country that you don't want to have a national side because "it would undermine its fooball"? |
ROFL? What's that?
As for the rest, you clearly are a glory hunter, you want to see teams and national sides ruined for some sense of glory. Well I'd rather have my own country playing with pride but not winning games than sell that right in order to appease the daft Unionists who've even managed to cause alarm in other traditional unionists. Most people in the UK are happy for the political union to remain, that is part and parcel of democracy, I can live with that, but most of those who follow football like the autonomy of our national sides and cringe at the idea of this being risked for the jolly of a few people with wider agendas. There is little support for your daft idea and I am quite happy with that, thankfully unlike my politics I am not in a minority on this one.
As for the rest of your comment, you won't find anything deep in what I said, it's got no wider significance.
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Cymro
Getting on a bit!
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1645
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Michael Owen has lived all his life on Deeside. I think he bought the whole street for his family. He was born in Chester cos it's the nearest hospital but I don't think that makes him English - eligible yes, but not English. He's a Welsh lad through and through. He has a Scottish grandmother and could have played for Scotland though. |
Erm, no. Michael Owen is and always has been and regarded himself as English. He was born in the Countess of Cheshire, while you are right to say it's the nearest hospital there are many many people in that area that are born in either the Maelor Hospital in Wrecsam or in Glan Clwyd in Bodelwyddan, depending on where exactly in Flinshire they live. Michael Owen was born to English parents who happen to live in Hawarden. While Corby is right to say that many in the area regard themselves as English, Michael is different to a lot of them in that he IS English. I am quite fortunate here because my dad taught at Hawarden High and I can assure you Michael Owen despite his Welsh surname always has seen himself as an Englishman living in Wales. He could have played for Scotland but he was not even eligable to play for Wales, only for the School Boys - in the same way that Ryan Giggs was able to play for the England School Boys but not for the England senior sides.
| Quote: | I can't believe your last stament "glory hunting ambitions... undermining football in this country".
I am ROFL>>>
The last part "this country" says a lot too. What country are you talking about? The country that you don't want to have a national side because "it would undermine its fooball"? |
ROFL? What's that?
As for the rest, you clearly are a glory hunter, you want to see teams and national sides ruined for some sense of glory. Well I'd rather have my own country playing with pride but not winning games than sell that right in order to appease the daft Unionists who've even managed to cause alarm in other traditional unionists. Most people in the UK are happy for the political union to remain, that is part and parcel of democracy, I can live with that, but most of those who follow football like the autonomy of our national sides and cringe at the idea of this being risked for the jolly of a few people with wider agendas. There is little support for your daft idea and I am quite happy with that, thankfully unlike my politics I am not in a minority on this one.
As for the rest of your comment, you won't find anything deep in what I said, it's got no wider significance. |
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Luke P
Gaining a Reputation
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 218
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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ROFL = rolling on the floor laughing
In what way does glory ruin a football team? That's the essence of competition. That's why we get excited about it!!!
I think we can see a problem with eligibility rules here. It's not quite fair that an "Englishman from Wales" called Owen cannot play for Wales (let's not pretend his ancestors weren't Welsh), when an ex-pat colonial with a British ancestor could play for any home nation. I'm fairly sure that's unlawful since we share one citizenship. Boils down to what people want at the end of the day, how they feel. But I'm fairly convinced had the rule been different Giggsy would have chosen the three lions too, and that's Wales' perpetual problem...
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Luke P
Gaining a Reputation
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Slightly off-topic - how about England (England & Wales) playing a test match at Cardiff? Does that p*** you off? I didn't see any protest or consternation - the Caerdyddians got right behind em!
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Cymro
Getting on a bit!
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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No, glory hunting isn't the essence of competition. The essence of competition is to give it a go. In football the passion comes from the thrill of seeing your team do well, from the dissapointment of seeing it fail and the wish to see that improve. It's not about ditching your team just because a better team with more money comes along. My first ever football match was Wrecsam vs Arsenal which Wrecsam won 2-1 back in 1993. Since then I've seen them beat other English Prem teams like West Ham, Birmingham, Ipswich etc but have slowly fallen down to the Conference (BSP) I still support them though. Anfield or Goodison are only 45 miles away from my home and I could even be in Old Trafford or the Manchester Stadium watching some of the worlds best players in little over an hour but on a Saturday afternoon cash allowing it's not there you'll find me but at the Racecourse Ground watching Wrecsam play the likes of Farsley Celtic. That is what proper fans do, they support their team through thick and thin not jump ship or want them to merge with another team just in order to have a better chance of winning.
Many people have claimed that about Giggs, but they ignore 1 person, Mr Ryan Giggs himself. He's come out and said that even if England was an option he is Welsh and that makes pulling on 1 shirt the only option. He's done that and done that with the professionalism which has made him one of the most respected people in football. You see, for many people football is still about that real passion and not about jumping ship for a better opportunity. He's not a glory hunter, he's a proper football fan who's been lucky enough to make a career out of the game he loves. Even if Giggs had a choice of countries he's made it clear that only one choice existed, Wales. Same goes for Gary Speed who was incidently born in Hawarden, the village that Michael Owen comes from. He chose Wales despite being one of the most highly rated youngsters in the game when he broke through for Leeds in the early 90's.
It isn't unlawful with Owen, it's accepted agreement between the FA's of the UK. You can go as far back as Grandparents if you wish (that's what bought the likes of Vinny Jones to Wales) but Michael Owen was NOT eligable for Wales.
Last edited by Cymro on Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Corby Boy
Standing in a Council Ward
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 488
Location: South of Hadrian's Wall
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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Cymro has hit the nail squarely on the head.
I would imagine most people reading this thread who support their teams would agree.
The key thing on eligibility is grandparents as Cymro rightly points out. That is where the line is drawn.
My surname although Scottish for 900 years, actually stems from Ireland through the colonisation of Argyll. There are many Irishmen of the same surname today.
Through your logic Luke P, does that make me eligible to play for Ireland? (Assuming I didn't have two left feet).
Sign Sir Trevor MacDonald up as part of Rod Stewart's Tartan Army all stars!! |
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Shagpile
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Luke P wrote: | | Shagpile wrote: | Why not go the whole way and scrap the Italian, French, German FAs. Why not? They are all part of Europe.
Andora could remain though. |
You're making a presumption that isn't valid. Of course, for a nationalist Scotland is its own country and always has been, but it is not a sovereign nation and that is the usual determinant for international sporting competition. |
Not my fault you're a tad obtuse.
England's not a sovereign nation either....... you wouldn't have thought it though with the antics of the FA. |
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Shagpile
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Luke P wrote: | | Shagpile wrote: | | Corby Boy wrote: | | I'd rather chew my right arm off than support a British Football Team. Most of my friends agree with this sentiment, and they are English. |
Could it be that they also realise it would be the kiss of death to the FA also? If there were to be one governing body for football in the 'UK'..... does any Englishman seriously think it would be the FA?
England would host no more World Cups, no more EUFA Finals! They would have to share them with the rest of the UK!
I seriously don't believe they really want to do that. Evidence of that is in the deal that English rugby tried to do with SKY. They almost found themselves in the One Nation rugger tourney.
A wee bit like the Old Firm when they almost had an SPL consisting of two teams. |
Sounds fantastic. Finally England has a set of grounds that could plausibly host a world cup on its own but it would be massively better to share with Wales and Scotland too. F*** the FA.
I see so much rabid opposition to the idea of a British football team here - but you know what - I bet after your wife had brought you round with smelling salts and after a couple of pints you'd just get right into it.
I think the reaction runs far deeper than the FAs losing their status. It is about Scotland losing its pride as a nation, losing its status as a country, sport being the only arena where it has it. That is the horror.
I'll throw the question out - are you able to support the British Olympic competitors competing for Britain or does it just fill you with contempt? |
I'll settle for independence....... Scotland's football independence will be secure with it.
BTW, I stopped being an Olympic fan when they changed from amateur status. I used to be a Brit too, funny enough.
And BTW also..... Britain is a union, it's not a country. The EU is a union, not a country. The EU is a newer union that's all. It's only a matter of time, perhaps a decade or two until the lines are as blurred as the UK union. |
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Luke P
Gaining a Reputation
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 218
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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Easy to win semantic arguments when you make your own definitions. What is a country? Is not Russia a union? The USA? China? Are they not countries too?
Is the Basque country a country? Is Spain a country too? Or is it a union? By your logic it must be.
For that matter is not Scotland a union?
I too am not a fan of professional olympic sports.
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"Hath He not made us all in one island, compassed with one sea and of itself by nature indivisible?" James VI/I |
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Shagpile
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Luke P wrote: | Easy to win semantic arguments when you make your own definitions. What is a country? Is not Russia a union? The USA? China? Are they not countries too?
Is the Basque country a country? Is Spain a country too? Or is it a union? By your logic it must be.
For that matter is not Scotland a union?
I too am not a fan of professional olympic sports. |
Great Britain is a union of TWO countries......
Try googleing ActS of Union |
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Luke P
Gaining a Reputation
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 218
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Shagpile wrote: | | Luke P wrote: | Easy to win semantic arguments when you make your own definitions. What is a country? Is not Russia a union? The USA? China? Are they not countries too?
Is the Basque country a country? Is Spain a country too? Or is it a union? By your logic it must be.
For that matter is not Scotland a union?
I too am not a fan of professional olympic sports. |
Great Britain is a union of TWO countries......
Try googleing ActS of Union |
As I have pointed out most of the 'countries' of the world are 'unions' of other countries. Will you still insist on calling them countries?
I googled acts of union. I found this:
James declared that Great Britain should be viewed 'as presently united, and as one realm and kingdom, and the subjects of both realms as one people'.
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"Hath He not made us all in one island, compassed with one sea and of itself by nature indivisible?" James VI/I |
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calum
Activist
Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 133
Location: Dùn Eideann
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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Ah... so this is about an England uberalles team and not George Burley's team.
Both GBs should go into the bin.
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Luke P
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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England uber alles team???
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"Hath He not made us all in one island, compassed with one sea and of itself by nature indivisible?" James VI/I |
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Shagpile
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Luke P wrote: | | Shagpile wrote: | | Luke P wrote: | Easy to win semantic arguments when you make your own definitions. What is a country? Is not Russia a union? The USA? China? Are they not countries too?
Is the Basque country a country? Is Spain a country too? Or is it a union? By your logic it must be.
For that matter is not Scotland a union?
I too am not a fan of professional olympic sports. |
Great Britain is a union of TWO countries......
Try googleing ActS of Union |
As I have pointed out most of the 'countries' of the world are 'unions' of other countries. Will you still insist on calling them countries?
I googled acts of union. I found this:
James declared that Great Britain should be viewed 'as presently united, and as one realm and kingdom, and the subjects of both realms as one people'.
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Other countries of the world may call themselves what they will. It's for the peoples of those lands to decide for themselves....... including Cornwall!
Why must you be so obtuse?
Re-read my post.
Scotland, immediately post union continued to negotiate her own trade agreements. FACT!
Very soon.... all trade agreements will be decided by the EU.
Which part of this do you have difficulty understanding?
When the EU is 'one country', which nation ought to represent the EU? |
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Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Let's go the whole hog and have a European football team.
We could maybe then beat then South Americans.
Better still, a world football team (Team World) then we would be undefeatable (if that's a word?) ... wait a minute... a world football team would be unbeatable because it wouldn't have an opposing team to beat.
Thus no game... big gets pointless very quickly.
GB (team Gordon Brown really).
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Alba gu bràth! |
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