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Hazel
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Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 177
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 Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:26 pm Post subject: tuition |
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I hope I am posting this question in the right place. If not, someone can move it.
I just read in a news item that Scotland has no university tuition fees. How does Scotland handle it? Higher taxes, perhaps?
Thank you.
* Charge students more, say bosses *
A CBI report suggests students should pay more interest on loans and higher tuition fees, sparking anger from their union.
Full story:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/-/2/hi/uk_news/education/8263672.stm
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Hazel
Chan ann air chall a tha gach neach air allaban. |
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Rinty
Jim Baxter is God...........really!!!!
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
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Location: SW Scotland
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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we DO have tuition fees, we dont have UP-FRONT fees, they are paid back over time and we dont have, as England does, TOP-UP fees, where some courses are higher. In Scotland all courses have a uniform fee.
It is a myth caused by the former Lib/Lab coalition who tried to procclaim they had scrapped tution fees when all they did was delay payment. |
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Hazel
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you. I'll go back and re-read the article later. I'm rushed right now.
I may be wrong but, if I remember "history" right, the people who are now demanding that students pay more are those who got their education free.
Some time back, wasn't university in UK free?
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Hazel
Chan ann air chall a tha gach neach air allaban. |
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Hazel
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Rinty
Jim Baxter is God...........really!!!!
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
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Location: SW Scotland
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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It was free, but means-tested, so well-off families had to pay something towards it. Those from poorere backgrounds had a mainteneace grant, free fees, and were able to claim housing benefit, as well as unemployment benefit when they were off in the summer.
Those who benefitted from this, the New Labour governments of the last decade or so, pulled that rug from under poorer families today.
I have a friend who work as a school dinner woman and is paying 350 per month, about half of her income, to rent a flat for her son in Newcastle while he studies. She gives up on food, social life and other things to make that ascrifice for her son, who will graduate with debts of about 30k |
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Hazel
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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In other words, "I got mine; now you get yours any way you can". Right?
It was never free here. Even when someone got a scholarship, they were expected to "pay for it" by working for the university in some way "without pay." In fact, in about a half hour I am going to lunch with someone who did just that. Her scholarship paid for everything but she had to work part time for the university in return. It doesn't leave much time for study, to say nothing of a social life.
Some day, this world will be "perfect", maybe?
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Hazel
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Holebender
Ready For Afterlife!
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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The Lab/LibDem delayed payment was scrapped by the SNP government.
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Rinty
Jim Baxter is God...........really!!!!
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
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Location: SW Scotland
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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Of course Holebender, apologies for somehow answering a question with a one-year time delay. It slipped my mind, probably confused in the various SNP u-turns  |
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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Hazel wrote: | | I may be wrong but, if I remember "history" right, the people who are now demanding that students pay more are those who got their education free. |
They did indeed. I left school in 1956, and started full time work before my 15th birthday. Nearly forty years later, well into my 50s, I went to university as a mature student. When Tony Blair (University of Oxford) became prime minister, with Gordon Brown (University of Edinburgh) in charge of his government's finances, and they sought to abolish grants and introduce tuition fees, I demonstrated against them, loudly making the point that
MY taxes had paid for THEIR education, and now the ungrateful young brats were selfishly trying to prevent others getting what they'd had. |
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Aventinian
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
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Location: Oh, I get about a bit.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:19 pm Post subject: Re: tuition |
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| Hazel wrote: | I hope I am posting this question in the right place. If not, someone can move it.
I just read in a news item that Scotland has no university tuition fees. How does Scotland handle it? Higher taxes, perhaps? |
The Scottish Parliament gets a block grant from the United Kingdom Parliament every year to cover devolved expenses. It cannot collect taxes - which is a matter reserved to the UK Government. This block grant, which used to go to the Scottish Office, has been consistently higher than that given for spending on similar matters in England given both out of perceived 'need' (due, in theory, to greater social problems and disadvantages) but also because it played well to Scottish voters.
If you mean on an international level (and its worth noting that tuition fees in the rest of the UK are a very recent invention) how do we afford it, then yes - higher taxes is simply the answer. The vast majority of higher education funding comes out of taxation, even with the small tuition fees in other parts of Britain, and British universities get nothing like the same level of donations as, say, American universities get. There's not the same culture of charitable giving to educational institutions here.
| Dave Coull wrote: | | MY taxes had paid for THEIR education, and now the ungrateful young brats were selfishly trying to prevent others getting what they'd had. |
I think you'll find their taxes more than made up for that investment. In fact, all it seems that you're doing is suggesting that instead of graduates, everyone - even those who did not have the opportunity to attend university - should pay for the minority who do. |
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Rinty
Jim Baxter is God...........really!!!!
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3601
Location: SW Scotland
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | In fact, all it seems that you're doing is suggesting that instead of graduates, everyone - even those who did not have the opportunity to attend university - should pay for the minority who do. |
Yep, thats a sound idea, but, rather than portray it as us funding a privileged few it should be looked at as ALL education being paid for collectively.
That will mean that some people have a few more years to complete their education than others, just as some require special facilities and go to 'schools' most of their life. The principle is as sound as free libraries, museums, or hospitals. Education is too important to leave to a market or to be restricted to those who can afford it, so it should be a collective responsibility. The Education of others can benefit all of us, not just the individual who gets the degree.
And, as you pointed out re the politicians, in general the tax income from graduates more than pays for their university education. Surely you wouldnt want them to pay twice
I left school at 15 and never went to Uni, but have no problem with paying tax to allow others to fulfil their education to the end that is best for them. |
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jamesieboy
Helping with the Count
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 327
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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Bring back grants - abolish trident and slash military spending.
That's the answer.
Oh and clamp down on tax avoidance by the rich (scum). |
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jamesieboy
Helping with the Count
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 327
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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Bring back grants - abolish trident and slash military spending.
That's the answer.
Oh and clamp down on tax avoidance by the rich (scum).
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