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Aventinian
1 Strike
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 5574
Location: Oh, I get about a bit.
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 Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| William_Cleland wrote: | | None of that actually addresses the sentence I wrote. If the Acts of Union of 1707 are ever repealed the Interpretation Act 1978 won't make a blind bit of difference to the fact that Wales is part of the legal jurisdiction referred to in that legislation as the "Kingdom of England". |
The legal existence of the Parliament of the United Kingdom is not dependent on the Acts of Union, nor would the Acts of Union be required to be expressly repealed to make Scotland independent - indeed, to do so would be impractical.
But let me get this straight: you admit that the Kingdom of England no longer exists, and you accept that Wales is separate from England in the modern sense of the terms. Exactly what do you think Wales is a part of?
If an Act is repealed, that does not suddenly revert everything back in time and resurrect extinct institutions. Again, this is clarified by the Interpretation Act 1978 s.15-17 on interpretation of statutory repeals.
| Quote: | | That does not change the fact that Wales does not have the same constitutional status as Scotland and Northern Ireland because English Law applies to Wales but not to Scotland and Northern Ireland, which have separate legal systems from that of England. |
Whether one calls it "English law" or "English and Welsh law" is immaterial, the latter is what it effectively is if it covers the England and Wales legal jurisdiction. |
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William_Cleland
I need ma own bl**dy forum!
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 1192
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:46 am Post subject: |
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The United Kingdom of Great Britain was formed through an international treaty between two fully sovereign entities.
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk...te/history/SPTradition/treaty.htm
Scottish independence would inherently mean the end of that treaty, the shared institutions formed by it and reemergence of two sovereign entities. Wales is technically part of the "Kingdom of England" in the wording of that treaty even if today the legal jurisdiction covered by English Law is now referred to as England and Wales. This isn't rocket science. End of argument and over and out for this thread as far as I am concerned. Arguing with a sockpuppet used to keep otherwise dead threads active is a complete waste of time.
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Aventinian
1 Strike
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 5574
Location: Oh, I get about a bit.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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I disagree entirely. The treaty formed these institutions, they are not dependent on it for their authority. The Parliament of Great Britain created by the Act of Union (which, of course, doesn't even exist any more - since 1801) has never required the Act/Treaty to confer power upon it: indeed, it has not only repealed and amended the Act of Union numerous times, but has exceeded the authority it pretends to give.
| Quote: | | the shared institutions formed by it and reemergence of two sovereign entities. Wales is technically part of the "Kingdom of England" in the wording of that treaty even if today the legal jurisdiction covered by English Law is now referred to as England and Wales. This isn't rocket science. |
The Kingdom of England is no more, it has ceased to be, it has gone to meet its maker, bereft of life it rests in peace. It is an ex-country. It is dissolved 'for ever' (Article 1). It is not going to 're-emerge' any more than your great-grandmother is going to re-emerge from her grave and pop round for afternoon tea if you burn her death certificate. It is gone.
| Quote: | | Arguing with a sockpuppet used to keep otherwise dead threads active is a complete waste of time. |
Nice to see we have yet another conspiracy theorist on this forum. |
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Cymro
Getting on a bit!
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1660
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| William_Cleland wrote: | | None of that actually addresses the sentence I wrote. If the Acts of Union of 1707 are ever repealed the Interpretation Act 1978 won't make a blind bit of difference to the fact that Wales is part of the legal jurisdiction referred to in that legislation as the "Kingdom of England". There would be a two way split rather than a three way split of Great Britain. I have never disputed that the modern name for one of the three separate legal jurisdictions of the UK is England and Wales. That does not change the fact that Wales does not have the same constitutional status as Scotland and Northern Ireland because English Law applies to Wales but not to Scotland and Northern Ireland, which have separate legal systems from that of England. No more follow ups unless you come up with something that actually addresses this point. |
English law applies to Wales where stipulated, laws which go through parliament which covers both England and Wales refer to England AND Wales. If Wales was a part of England it would merely be England. Of course old laws will refer to just England as a reflection of the annexation of the 1500's, but as Avetinan said, when a law is passed they don't go back and rewrite everysingle law ever passed before it.
In Wales, the devolution settlement leaves the last majority of powers with Westminster, now being an Unionist you should of course realise that Westminster is the British Parliament not the English Parliament. Welsh MPs, Scottish MPs, Northern Irish MPs and yes, English MPs can vote or not on these issues as they see fit. There are some laws amended under devolution to suit Wales, there are some that come from Westminster and exist exclusively for Wales (Government of Wales Act etc) and a small few that can be fully penned in Wales for Wales - which is going to increase because of the new powers given to the Assembly, so while Wales and England share the same legal system it doesn't make it less of a country within the UK as Scotland is, it just reflects the political nature of Wales within the Union as opposed to Scotlands.
Something you refuse to accept despite the facts in front of you. |
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Shagpile
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 800
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Cymro wrote: | | English law applies to Wales where stipulated, laws which go through parliament which covers both England and Wales refer to England AND Wales. If Wales was a part of England it would merely be England. Of course old laws will refer to just England as a reflection of the annexation of the 1500's, |
Not for me to say how Wales is Governed, except to say it is with the wishes and harmony of the Welsh People.
| Quote: | | but as Avetinan said, when a law is passed they don't go back and rewrite everysingle law ever passed before it. |
From acorns grows the mighty Oak; with respect to your now forming (new) legal system. Again (to be) unique to Wales. Good luck. |
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mairead
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4302
Location: Argyll, Alba
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Personally I don't give a rats behind what England the remainder of the UK choose to call themselves once Scotland is independent. That's up to them.
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