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William_Cleland · Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:14 am Post subject:

I think trams (we are really talking light rail here) have significantly greater capacity than buses and this line is envisaged as the key artery for additional branch lines (such as the proposed lines to Granton, Newbridge and Newcraighall) that will be added later over the coming decades.
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No more boom and bust - Gordon Brown

Holebender · Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:28 am Post subject:

My only personal experience of a light rail system is the one in Calgary, Canada. In that case dedicated routes, not along existing streets, are used. The only exception is the downtown hub, which was built on an existing street in the city centre which had been closed to all other traffic.
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"My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it." - agentmancuso

mac

The original will overlook the new folly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Monument,_Edinburgh

It's interesting that the original was never completed "for reasons of either cost or lack of local enthusiasm. A proposal in 2004 [1] was met with a very mixed reception."

Honestly, are there people who think the Tram project is a good idea?

Please persuade me. Sad

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Stevie · Independentist Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Posts: 1226

I've got rather a soft spot for trams.
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Every man dies, not every man really lives.

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mac · Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:38 am Post subject:

Stevie, so do I, but not at a cost of 1 billion or so for one line to go from the foot of leith walk to the zoo!

Honestly, I think folk will be so disgusted by the whole thing they'll refuse to use it as a point of principle, and use their bus pass instead - who will be prepared to pay the $5 quid round trip fare anyway?

As an ex-pat, I use camvista a lot

http://www.camvista.com/scotland/edinburgh/citycentre.php

and it looks really bad Sad

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"Scotland's stunningly beautiful, and utterly captivating capital city, Edinburgh"

cullen-skink · Finding Ma' Way Joined: 25 Aug 2009 Posts: 7

It's not from the Foot of the Walk to the zoo: it's from Victoria Quay to the airport. $5 is not very likely to be the fare, is it? And it's going to be LRT run, so anyone who holds a "bus pass" will be able to use the tram anyway.

mac · Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:45 pm Post subject:

cullen-skink · Finding Ma' Way Joined: 25 Aug 2009 Posts: 7

Well, It's one line to begin with (as any tram or rail system is). Once the core line, Airport to Vic Quay, is in place then it becomes progressively easier to extend and add further branch lines to it.

Of course there is disruption and expense involved: that goes for any major infrastructure project, but that's hardly a reason not to proceed. If you had been around Princes Street / Shandwick Place / Leith Walk even before the work began, you would have seen the common sight of half a dozen or more buses, nose to tail, fighting with other road traffic and pedestrians, being held up at traffic lights etc.

Another point to consider is that almost all of Edinburgh City Centre is a designated Air Quality Management Area (AQMA). As such, there is a legal requirement on the council to pursue means to reduce air pollution there, which is what electric trams will do and what even the most modern diesel engined buses, constantly accelerating and then stopping 50 metres further on, never will.

William_Cleland · Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:47 am Post subject:

The importance of Leith Walk and Princes Street as the main artery should be obvious after checking out Lothian Buses' route map:-

http://lothianbuses.com/routemap.php
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No more boom and bust - Gordon Brown

mac · Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:10 am Post subject:

Just to let you know where I'm at/coming from, was transferred from Edinburgh to London for 12 months before getting another transfer over here, had heard a lot about the Tube, and have to say, for a system over 100 years old, it's a world-beater, covers a large area, trains only a few minutes apart, easy to read station maps. I'll bet that when that first started there was a lot of opposition, but look at it now - I still don't think the Tram or Trams will ever compete with the existing mothballed train stations in my lifetime, and I continue to feel that we (meaning we Edinburghers) will be paying for this white elephant/vanity project for a long time - please prove me wrong LRT,TIE, or whoever.

I honestly hope my gut feeling is incorrect on this one. Sad

The ironic thing is, when I first got to Orlando, there was a big vote about using approved federal govt money for a light rail project which I was for, which was defeated by one vote - that project has been resurrected and I think they're now going ahead. Confused

I am actually in favor of mass transit projects.
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"Scotland's stunningly beautiful, and utterly captivating capital city, Edinburgh"

William_Cleland · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:46 am Post subject:

mac · Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:36 am Post subject:

Fair enough, WC - yes I meant that old line which can't easily be re-introduced, but, surprisingly, we're easily introducing a more costly new tram line Confused

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"Scotland's stunningly beautiful, and utterly captivating capital city, Edinburgh"

William_Cleland · Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:09 am Post subject:

The south sub line was built for freight with passenger service added as an afterthought. It is not like the Cathcart Circle in Glasgow, which was designed to cater primarily to passenger service from the southside of Glasgow into the city centre along a north south axis. The ideal route for the south sub from a passenger service standpoint would have been to run up the western side of Arthur's Seat rather than around the eastern side all the way out to Brunstane station. One of the later phases of the tram system will address that issue if it is ever implemented:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edin...Line_3_.28South_East_Edinburgh.29
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No more boom and bust - Gordon Brown

mac · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:54 am Post subject:

Once again, WC, fair point Cool

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"Scotland's stunningly beautiful, and utterly captivating capital city, Edinburgh"

Luke P · Gaining a Reputation Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 218

I think this quote sums it up:

"Basically the rule of thumb goes, if its a public project (read taxpayers money), charge us fuckers through the roof. Stagger the process as long as possible with expensive delays, enquiries and a whole lotta lawyers. Then send ur invoice."

Taken from here:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=126634
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"Hath He not made us all in one island, compassed with one sea and of itself by nature indivisible?" James VI/I

mac · Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:50 am Post subject: