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parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/478513.stm

Monday, October 18, 1999 Published at 15:12 GMT 16:12 UK

UK: Northern Ireland

Vandals in language blunder

Vandalism of Ulster Scots street signs a 'misunderstanding'

Street signs in the Ulster Scots language were torn down by loyalist vandals who believed them to be Irish, a local councillor has said.

BBC NI's Annita McVeigh:Signs had been erected after a residents' petition
The signs for Tullyard Way on the loyalist Clonduff Estate in Castlereagh had only just been erected after a survey showed at least 75% of residents were in favour of Ulster Scots signage.

Local Democratic Unionist Party Councillor Tommy Jeffers said that the vandalism occurred because of a "misunderstanding".

Cllr Tommy Jeffers (DUP): Imprudent to put Irish signs up in Castlereagh
"The problem really is that the Ulster Scots was misunderstood by some people as Irish," he said.

"I believe it would be very imprudent of Castlereagh Council to try and put Irish signs up anywhere in the borough."

When the vandals realised their error, they returned the signs to the garden of Roy Adams, a Clonduff Estate resident who had petitioned for the erection of Ulster Scots signage.

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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

SLG · Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject:

How could someone confuse Ulster Scots with Irish!

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

your correct, you would have to be very stupid Very Happy

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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

Abieuan · Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:47 pm Post subject:

They were probably oot their heids, but it just shows the need for more education about UlsterScots.

SLG · Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:53 pm Post subject:

Is Ulster Scots not the language of the community for the people who took down these signs?

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

yes

75% of them were in favour of the signs going up then when they went up they didnt recognise them thought they were irish and were offended by them Very Happy

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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

Abieuan · Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:10 pm Post subject:

SLG wrote:

Aventinian · Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:49 am Post subject:

To be honest, I find it a bit ridiculous that there were signs demonstrating anything other than the actual street name - whether it be in Irish, Ulster-Scots or whatever.

Apparently a DUP MLA once complained to the local council about the use of Irish translations in 'No Smoking' signs on the buses in Belfast. The reply he got did little more than point out that the signs were actually using French as a second language.
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'Socialists cry "Power to the people", and raise the clenched fist as they say it. We all know what they really mean—power over people, power to the State.'

RFM · Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:39 am Post subject:

SLG:
I am afraid I must confess ignorance. What is the difference between Ulster Scots and Irish?
RFM

Leathlaobhair · Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:01 pm Post subject:

Irish is a Celtic language mostly unrelated to English. Ulster-Scots is a Germanic language which is the closest related language to English
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Those must have all been important to me once. What I am now grew from that. A former self is a fool, an insufferable ass, but he's still human, you'd no more turn him out than you'd turn out any kind of cripple, would you?
-Thomas Pynchon

SLG · Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject:

RFM · Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:52 pm Post subject:

Leathlaobhair,
Thank-you for the info, and let me ask: As the Ulster Scots regard themselves as the decendants of the settlers placed by WIlliam and Mary, the suggestion is that they would have been of the political group known as Cavaliers or Tories, but from Scotland. They would certainly have regarded the Irish as all of the 16th century English did, that is as some sort of a subhuman, but coming out of Scotland they certainly would have known what Gaelic was, certainly far better than the English. But over some 400 years you would think that there certainly would have been some cultural inbreeding, including language adaptations? Or were they able to rigidly isolate themselves?
Next question: Certainly all of the road and street signs in Ireland can't be written in Gaelic can they?
RFM

azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3777

actually the presbyterian scots 'planted' in Ulster were treated just as badly by the anglican english as the irish catholics. That's why the the situation in Northern Ireland is so strange.
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"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub

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parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

its not really strange rs. you can look at examples of other colonies in Africa where the British propped up a certain section of the population to rule over the others whilst at the same time being treated badly by the British establishment. This was to foster a kind of well our situation may be bad but at least were not in the same situation as catholics, its a tried and tested method by the British.
_________________
"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3777

I suppose.

It's just frustrating to see the situation today given the history - divide and rule and all that.

Why can't we all just get along? Sad

_________________
"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub

Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mash' - http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/

RFM · Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:17 am Post subject:

Bravo Azzuri,
Too many ambitious people, too many people with a chance to make money on the misfortunes and losses of others, too many people in the world who just like to see other people miserable even if they don't profit a thin dime themselves.
RFM

Lothian Sky · I Love 'Our Scotland' Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 350

for an example of Scotch Irish, look here:
http://www.scotchirish.net/Ulster%20Scots.php4

It's just old Scots in an Irish accent, IMO. Think the guy is hamming it up a bit, listening to the crap he's talking!!

Babygael · Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject:

Thanks Lothian sky, I did'nt know much about the Ulster scotch either.Ya gotta be brave to live there! The sasannach just seem hell bent on a path of destruction of any one who stands in their way!!
Assisted wonderfully,to quote the web site,"200 hundered years of forced British education" This I believe is the problem in scotland where there are so many sasannach wannabes around

BG

Rinty · Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 6:10 pm Post subject: b

Aventinian · Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 6:13 pm Post subject:

Quite. It's not just that we have been brought up speaking English and endeavour to speak it properly as the global language of damn-near-everything? We have to be 'sasannach wannabes'? Cultural imperialism at its very best coming in a Scottish accent.

Notably the Highlanders have long referred to the Lowlanders in Scotland as 'sasannachs' anyway - it's not simply the English. This point was raised in another thread here (or was it Scotland dot com) recently.